Curse

actionjack · Jun 12, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Since I am not worring myself with getting skills, I cann't make vote on this.

But I am still waiting for the Skill Gem comeback.

eudas · Jun 12, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

5 tokens can be exchanged for one Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any NPC Merchant for 1,000 gold.
Please explain how "the max amount to pay down" would be kept at 100 ~ 150 gold?

Given: People buy/sell monastary credits and Imperial commendations.
Given: They generally pay 100-150 each, i think.

Thus, if you allowed 5 monestary credits or 5 imperial commendations to get a skill, people would "cheat the system" and just buy 5 for, say, 100gp ea, and thereby buy a skill for 500gp instead of the regular 1k gp.

Thus, your proposal is flawed, as it is not an "addition" to the skills purchase system, but it would, in fact, become a de-facto *replacement* of the skills purchase system. Bad design.

In addition, to "skills farm", people who didn't want to buy their monastary credits/imperial commendations from other people would simply make new chars, complete the trivial starter quests for credits/commendations, and stash them at the xunlai, delete the char, wash, rinse, repeat. But really, that's not necessary: just sit in shing jea monestary buying up MC's, or sit in Kaineng Center buying up IC's, because literally, "there's one born every minute"... you can passively soak up MC/IC's for almost nothing.

Look, I really sympathize with how you feel, but the ideas put forth on how to "solve" the issue really a) don't solve it and b) just make things worse.

IMO, You're trying to fix something that ain't broke.

eudas

gabrial heart · Jun 12, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

can i ask something here? ok thanx...
I have like 145 skill points on my monk with the 60 elite thingy. Why in heck would i want another way to get skills? lack of money? What you would earn getting the 5 totems you could prolly afford 5 skill caps.... hmmm

now if i had a way to spend all those skill ponts...

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Jun 13, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

Given: People buy/sell monastary credits and Imperial commendations.
Given: They generally pay 100-150 each, i think.

Ok I realised that we cannot get a Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold using five (5) Monastery Credits, but we can get a Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold using five (5) Imperial Commendation.

Please tell me why people would sell their Imperial Commendations for less than their worth?

I would just revise the idea and remove the "Monastery Credit" from it, leaving only
- Imperial Commendation
- Equipment Requisition
- Luxon Totem

Quote:

Thus, if you allowed 5 monestary credits or 5 imperial commendations to get a skill, people would "cheat the system" and just buy 5 for, say, 100gp ea, and thereby buy a skill for 500gp instead of the regular 1k gp.

Drop the Monstery Credit since five 5 Monastery Credits does not equal one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

But, five (5) Imperial Commendation can be exchanged for one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

Please tell me how people would "cheat the system" when the values in terms of gold are exactly the same?

Quote:

Thus, your proposal is flawed, as it is not an "addition" to the skills purchase system, but it would, in fact, become a de-facto *replacement* of the skills purchase system. Bad design.

It would be no longer flawed once "Monestary Credits" is taken out, it would not replace since 5 tokens (Imperial Commendations, Equipment Requisitions, Luxon Totems) can be exchanged for one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

It would be serve as an alternative method for characters who have reached the maximum and require 1,000 gold to learn a new skill.

Quote:

In addition, to "skills farm", people who didn't want to buy their monastary credits/imperial commendations from other people would simply make new chars, complete the trivial starter quests for credits/commendations, and stash them at the xunlai, delete the char, wash, rinse, repeat. But really, that's not necessary: just sit in shing jea monestary buying up MC's, or sit in Kaineng Center buying up IC's, because literally, "there's one born every minute"... you can passively soak up MC/IC's for almost nothing.

Understood, Monastery Credits can be easily "farmable" in this way, but I do not think the same applies for Imperial Commendations.

Quote:

IMO, You're trying to fix something that ain't broke.

Originally, I am trying to come up with alternative uses for these tokens, since whatever offered by these tokens, I can purchase with gold.

eudas · Jun 13, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

Ok I realised that we cannot get a Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold using five (5) Monastery Credits, but we can get a Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold using five (5) Imperial Commendation.

Please tell me why people would sell their Imperial Commendations for less than their worth?

Because they don't understand their true value, either because they're new, or because they don't pay attention to the markets.

Many PVE'ers don't like to play "merchant", so they don't keep track of market values for many things, nor the reasons behind why they hold those values.

Example: mountain troll tusks will never be sold to another player for more than 24gp, because it takes 5 to get an item from a collector with them, and the item only sells for 125gp.

You can make a living simply off of hanging around Droknar's buying mountain troll tusks for 15-17gp (that's the going rate) and once you have a couple stacks of them, you just make some quick runs up north of rankor to the collector, fill your inventory with collector items, map back to rankor, sell them to the merchant, wash, rinse, repeat. It's a pretty easy way of making money, especially with all the troll farmers out there.

But if people don't know that, or don't think they can make the run, or don't troll farm enough to build up stacks of them, they'll just sell 'em off. The merchant'll only pay maybe 8gp per tusk, but a pc buying them for 15-17 makes them twice the money they'd get at the merchant. that pc then turns around and makes 8-10gp per tusks via the collector...

Point is, you can take advantage of the lazy, stupid, or ignorant, and it happens all the time. People don't realize the value of the stuff they have.

People are doing the same thing with IC's in Kaineng Center. KC is a hub of ch1 characters who are new to ch2 and don't know the value of the IC's they're getting from the easy KC/Marketplace quests, *and* of ch2 characters who've just recently hit the mainland and are doing quests with their brand spankin' new max armor. Many people are hanging around, buying IC's for 100-150gp ea, then they turn around and trade 5 of them (500gp-750gp value) to the Imperial Quartermasters for Superior Salvage Kits (2k value) and then either turn around and sell them to the merchant for 1k (250gp profit) or sell them to another player for 1.5k (750gp profit). fast, easy money.

Hell, I still see people in Yak's Bend buying Stone Summit Badges from lowbies who've just hit the shiverpeaks (and thus started obtaining SSB's). You *know* those buying the SSB's for 15-17gp ea are just massing them, mapping to droknar's, and talking to the collector *in Droknar's* to perform the same easy moneymaking cycle that i described for troll tusks.

as the saying goes, "there's one born every minute."

Quote:

I would just revise the idea and remove the "Monastery Credit" from it, leaving only
- Imperial Commendation
- Equipment Requisition
- Luxon Totem

Drop the Monstery Credit since five 5 Monastery Credits does not equal one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

But, five (5) Imperial Commendation can be exchanged for one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

Please tell me how people would "cheat the system" when the values in terms of gold are exactly the same?

By buying IC's for cheap (100-150gp ea) from newbies who don't understand their true value yet. You absolutely do not want to inculcate a culture of taking advantage of newbies. From what I understand, it's happened on other MMORPG's, and it absolutely kills the oldbie/newbie interaction culture. You don't want to see how truly poisonous it can get. While you're thinking of this, and your desire to make some change, remember -- the way to Hell is paved with good intentions. When you're thinking of design changes like this, you have to think not only on the theoretical level of what people *should* do inside your design, but also on the practical level of what they *are* doing, what they *could* do, and what they *will* continue to do, and you have to make sure you don't make things *worse*.

Quote:

It would be no longer flawed once "Monestary Credits" is taken out, it would not replace since 5 tokens (Imperial Commendations, Equipment Requisitions, Luxon Totems) can be exchanged for one (1) Superior Salvage Kit worth 2,000 gold which can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold.

It would be serve as an alternative method for characters who have reached the maximum and require 1,000 gold to learn a new skill.

I believe that it would still be flawed, for the reasons that I put forth above. You mention that the items can be exchanged for gold (indirectly) -- since, as you point out, 5 IC ~= 1k gp = 1 skill purchase -- then why make coding changes to support something that is already effectively in progress?

Quote:

Understood, Monastery Credits can be easily "farmable" in this way, but I do not think the same applies for Imperial Commendations.

Not as farmable, per se, but still very easy to get from other players for small amounts of gold each.

Quote:

Originally, I am trying to come up with alternative uses for these tokens, since whatever offered by these tokens, I can purchase with gold.

A noble idea, but I believe the cure is worse than the disease, here. Or at best, a moot point.

eudas